Trusty handybits.

Thursday, June 9th, 2011 @ 1:33 am | Clueless Conservatives, Crazy Tea Party People, Deficit

Great compilation here:

Here, then, are 10 Inconvenient Truths About the Debt Ceiling:

1. Republican Leaders Agree U.S. Default Would Be a “Financial Disaster”
2. Ronald Reagan Tripled the National Debt
3. George W. Bush Doubled the National Debt
4. Republicans Voted Seven Times to Raise Debt Ceiling for President Bush
5. Federal Taxes Are Now at a 60 Year Low
6. Bush Tax Cuts Didn’t Pay for Themselves or Spur “Job Creators”
7. Ryan Budget Delivers Another Tax Cut Windfall for Wealthy
8. Ryan Budget Will Require Raising Debt Ceiling – Repeatedly
9. Tax Cuts Drive the Next Decade of Debt
10. $3 Trillion Tab for Unfunded Wars Remains Unpaid

Click through for the details. It’s pretty frustrating trying to have deficit debates with Republicans when they simply refuse to acknowledge the basic realities and fundamentals of the problem. They got their spin, and they don’t want to unlearn it, even if the good of the country depends on it.

-hw

14 Responses to “Trusty handybits.”

  1. Liberal Shark Says:

    Do you guys EVER tell the truth?

    http://coralvillecourier.typepad.com/community/2011/06/budget-basics-government-has-a-spending-problem.html

  2. Henry Whistler Says:

    Do you ever stop spanking it to granny porn?

    What did I say that you think is a lie?

  3. Liberal Shark Says:

    The truth is, it’s the Democrats in Washington and their parrot following that don’t want to acknowledge the real problems. The truth is there won’t be a default if the debt ceiling isn’t raised, that’s a flat out lie. There’s plenty of *revenue* to pay the country’s bills. It’s the SPENDING that’s killing us, but liberals are in complete denial about that reality. And tax cuts do not create debt, SPENDING does. It’s you liberals who continue to spin, intentionally misinform, omit, and mislead people. Here’s an example of a key omission constantly done in liberal talking points: Liberals don’t like to acknowledge that it’s the House that controls the purse strings in this country. Sure, the president submits a budget, but it’s the House that says it lives or dies. Check out our history and note which party holds majority in the House and then look at the pattern of debt history. When Dems are in charge, the country’s debt spins out of control. When the GOP is in charge, revenues start to catch up to deficit spending. If not for Reagan’s veto pen, Democrat deficit spending would have been far worse. Because Bush 43 failed to use his veto pen, deficit spending DID get worse, and some GOP leaders helped. Obama and his Democrat House and Senate have taken spending to unparalled levels. Thank goodness we now have a GOP controlled House again to repair (again) what Democrats have broken.

    There’s your truth.

  4. Liberal Shark Says:

    Liberals are living in a dreamworld to think that what Democrats want to do is prudent action.

    Let’s put this in simple terms for you idiot liberals:

    Below I’ve noted the presidential era, the country’s bills (debt), and then the paycheck amount (GDP). All figures are for the final year of presidential office, Obama’s of course being his most recent.

    Bills Paycheck
    Reagan $2.6 $5.1
    Bush 41 $4.1 $6.3
    Clinton $5.6 $9.8
    Bush 43 $10.6 $14.4
    Obama $14.0 $14.7

    As you can see folks, this isn’t rocket science, the paychecks keep getting bigger. We don’t have a revenue problem, we have a SPENDING problem. Modern day liberals are on a pace that EXCEEDS what the country makes. That’s why you hear so many REASONBLE people make the argument that current spending is on an unsustainable path.

  5. Liberal Shark Says:

    That’s trillions of dollars by the way.

  6. Henry Whistler Says:

    Okay, I’m going to waste my time here, as Thayer has no intention of honestly debating:

    1. “The truth is there won’t be a default if the debt ceiling isn’t raised, that’s a flat out lie.”

    Of course, that’s the actual lie. A default could only be averted by stopping that horrid spending on Medicare and Social Security and military pay, unemployment, etc.

    No Republican, including Paul Ryan, has presented a spending plan that would allow us to continue indefinitely without raising the debt ceiling. Your plan exists only in the fevered imagination of the extreme right, and if it didn’t tank the US economy would leave millions of retired Americans high and dry after contributing to the system their entire careers.

    2. “And tax cuts do not create debt, SPENDING does.”

    Unfortunately, basic math seems to elude you. The government can spend without creating debt if tax revenue exceeds the spending. There is no logical reason to cut one side out of a two-sided equation. You seem to wish that by typing things in all caps, you will make them come true.

    3. Oh, this is too good:

    “Here’s an example of a key omission constantly done in liberal talking points: Liberals don’t like to acknowledge that it’s the House that controls the purse strings in this country.”

    A few lines later:

    “Because Bush 43 failed to use his veto pen, deficit spending DID get worse, and some GOP leaders helped.”

    So Mike Thayer (Liberal Shark is but one of a variety of pseudonyms used by Mike Thayer, in case somebody reading doesn’t know) says liberals don’t admit that the House controls spending, then when Republicans controlled the House, he describes that as “some GOP leaders.”

    If you’re going to accuse me of a form of dishonesty (without citation, of course), Thayer, try not to do the exact thing directly afterwards.

    4. The Republicans held the White House veto pen for twenty years between 1980 and 2008. The deficits only stopped during the years with a Democrat as president. The phrase, “When Dems are in charge, the country’s debt spins out of control,” has little basis in reality, considering the nation had no serious deficit troubles before the eighties.

    Given that we are currently fighting to rectify the damage done to the country’s finances due to Bush’s wars, tax cuts, Medicare part D, and the economy he left in freefall, trying to attribute our deficit problems to Democrats entirely is dishonest. Obama’s original policies have added relatively little to our debt, his worst sins involve continuing Bush policies.

    Not to mention that the Republicans are again in the House, so shall we be seeing a budget with a surplus? Of course not.

    5. Simply pointing out that the deficit is higher, and Obama is in office is your basic trick, but you, just like every other Republican I’ve debated this with, have very few examples of specific items of Obama/Democrat spending you can point to that really explain the scope of our deficit problems. Because other than the stimulus, which was one-third tax cuts and quite small compared to the trillions being added to the deficit, you don’t have any.

    The surest evidence of this is recent Republican efforts at budget cutting. Much ado was made while they went after red meat targets like Planned Parenthood and NPR, but when it came time to cut they ran right into SS, Medicare, and the Pentagon. Republicans being unwilling to cut the Pentagon by anything more than symbolic slivers, that leaves SS and Medicare to go after with a hatchet (hint: Obama did not create SS or Medicare).

    Along with yet even more tax cuts, which one would think after our ten year (now twelve) experiment with the Bush tax cuts we’d realize it’s not the miracle economy-booster Republicans want it to be.

    Americans like a robust Pentagon, along with their SS and Medicare, and they should be willing to pay the taxes necessary to keep these programs running.

    But then there’s flunkies like you, doing the work of the rich trying to save a few more million here or there in taxes for themselves, utterly unconcerned about people like you. Why turn down free labor?

    If you’re actually serious about the country’s budget problems, Thayer, feel free to respond seriously. But you sound like a guy with serious emotional problems who comes here to vent librul-hatred.

    I look forward to you ignoring 90% of this and treating us to another unhinged rant.

  7. Liberal Shark Says:

    More cowardly b.s. from HW. He just doesn’t care about the truth.

    Here’s what it boils down to folks, millionaires didn’t put this country into debt, politicians did, but HW won’t acknowledge that because he wants to continue taxing the rich at more than their fair share of rates to pay for liberal hand out programs. Deficit be damned, spend, spend, spend!

    http://coralvillecourier.typepad.com/community/2011/04/eat-the-rich.html

  8. Henry Whistler Says:

    I ended my reply with, “I look forward to you ignoring 90% of this and treating us to another unhinged rant.”

    Goddamn, I’m psychic.

    Look, you asshole, I gave you an honest set of answers with some actual thought to them. And what do you do? Come back with more YOU LIE!

    I’m not lying, I’m telling you my honest opinion and supporting it with facts as best I can. Grow the hell up, you petulant child.

    On the other hand, you come in here with your rants, I respond to each and every part of it, and you just blow it off and continue ranting.

    In reality, among actually intelligent people, that is recognized as fundamentally dishonest behavior.

    As for your latest accusation, I actually support raising taxes on everybody and returning them to the rates of the prosperous nineties. Let the bankrupting Bush tax cuts expire. The experiment failed, Thayer. Your fevered rambling is just a function of trying to cover that up.

    Feel free to reply in the manner of somebody who isn’t a socially maladjusted anger junkie.

  9. Liberal Shark Says:

    Gee, what a surprise, more denial of reality and name calling by HW. And never mind that he doesn’t really know for sure who he’s actually addressing. He makes an assumption, but he’s wrong. Six people could be responding to this blog from a coffee shop, and he would think it’s the same person.

    The problem is, HW and his comrades don’t know how to be honest. All they see fit to do is regurgitate liberal spin, parrot manipulated liberal facts and spew twisted jusifications and make excuses for irresponsible behavior (their side of the isle only, they chastise similar behavior from the opposing party).

    Much of what is written by the bloggers at Iowa Liberal is complete B.S. and uninformed opion. It’s why many of their so-called ‘responses’ are not addressed. Reasonable people like to stay on topic, liberals like to redirect once they get boxed in a corner, realizing they’re on the wrong side of the argument.

    Back on topic and at the crux of this issue, that HW completely failed to address the following is noted:

    Liberals are living in a dreamworld to think that what Democrats want to do is prudent action.

    Let’s put this in simple terms for you idiot liberals:

    Below I’ve noted the presidential era, the country’s bills (debt), and then the paycheck amount (GDP). All figures are for the final year of presidential office, Obama’s of course being his most recent.

    Bills Paycheck
    Reagan $2.6 $5.1
    Bush 41 $4.1 $6.3
    Clinton $5.6 $9.8
    Bush 43 $10.6 $14.4
    Obama $14.0 $14.7

    As you can see folks, this isn’t rocket science, the paychecks keep getting bigger. We don’t have a revenue problem, we have a SPENDING problem. Modern day liberals are on a pace that EXCEEDS what the country makes. That’s why you hear so many REASONBLE people make the argument that current spending is on an unsustainable path.

  10. Henry Whistler Says:

    Gosh, he calls names but complains about name-calling, dodges facts but accuses me of dodging facts, and then repeats the same little set of numbers already addressed in my first reply.

    If you’re trying to prove me wrong about something, you might want to get on the internets and look up what “proving” actually entails. Your shtick, Thayer, doesn’t work.

    Asshole.

  11. AJKamper Says:

    Somebody gets a mortgage. They lose their job. Thayer: “That person has a SPENDING problem.” They want to eat, but have to stay at home with an ailing kid and can’t get insurance. “That’s not a revenue problem, that’s a spending problem!”

    Oh, c’mon. I wasn’t even going to bother being anything other than snide, but for the hell of it, let’s say something worthwhile: what people claiming we only have a spending problem don’t acknowledge is their perception of how important the spending is. If we were in a major war and needed the money for national defense, one would think that this “spending problem” would suddenly turn out to be a revenue problem after all. So people like this guy aren’t acknowledging their implicit biases.

  12. Henry Whistler Says:

    Acknowledging implicit biases ain’t in his toolset.

  13. Henry Whistler Says:

    Just to remind people how Thayer works, I attempted to engage him on his own website once. He deleted 80% of a long reply I wrote.

    I mean, besides the complete scumbag dishonesty of deleting my answers, the stupidity of cutting off most of a comment and putting the first part up so that the evidence is right there is pretty impressive.

  14. mike g Says:

    I forgot about that. He did that to me too.