UPHELD.

Thursday, June 28th, 2012 @ 9:15 am | Politics

The telly says the ACA upheld, the mandate legal through (as I’ve said a hundred times) the taxing authority of Congress.

Holy smokes. This is the just outcome I had hoped we’d get from a genuinely conservative court.

Another fucking great day in America and for the Obama presidency.

-hw

UPDATE: A bad day for CNN and FOX…

31 Responses to “UPHELD.”

  1. Mg Says:

    TIL that it wasn’t at all about the constitutionality of the ACA but the taxes.

  2. Jldmeyer Says:

    “Just because a couple people on the Supreme Court declare something to be ‘constitutional’ does not make it so.” -Sen. Rand Paul

    I guess that means we are just going to have to throw out about 4 supreme court judges. That’s what we do here in Iowa anyway.

  3. AJKamper Says:

    You know, I’m pretty okay with this decision. 1) It still limits Commerce Clause power, which I don’t mind, and 2) being honest with myself, I like Obama getting a win. :)

  4. Henry Whistler Says:

    Oh, just you wait, I already heard some contrarian saying this was a disastrous decision for Obama because it will galvananize the GOP base. I said to Mike earlier, how about a f’ing victory galvanizing our base for once?

    Obama ran on health care reform in 2008, he won big, Democrats won big, we demanded it of them, they did it, and the Republicans wasted two years trying to litigate a plan they invented. Now they’re running a candidate who did the same thing as governor and told Obama to do it as president, and he’s running on “full repeal,” which is something we already heard before they tried litigating it. EPIC fail for Republicans. Massive WIN for Democrats.

    Plus, a massive win for those who will be able to get health care coverage or have already gotten it because of this bill. Republicans haven’t a single word to say about them, they’re just raging and fuming that America got this reform with Obama’s name on it. This is sore loser shenanigans that doesn’t give any real answers to voters, just a shtick soundbite.

    Hell YES this is a victory stacked on top of the victory of 2010 and as clear an example as any of what differentiates the two parties. I say Obama enthusiasm goes way up after this. After the de facto DREAM maneuver, support for same sex marriage, backing women, and cornholing Romney on outsourcing/offshoring, ending the Iraq War, pointing to an end for Afghanistan, ending DADT, backing off DOMA, plus the chance to replace even more SC judges, Obama has done a lot of scoring for a guy with such a hostile Congress. I know there are a few issues (War on Drugs, whistleblower prosecutions, drones) that liberals are still sore about, but man, that’s a lot of gravy that wouldn’t have been dished out without a President Obama.

  5. George Says:

    Now the Democrats have to handle ObamaCare as a tax. Good luck with that.

    I don’t like the precedent that’s been set, but the very real possibility that there will be fewer Democrats in Washington this November is something to look forward to.

  6. Henry Whistler Says:

    It’s only a tax on freeloaders who don’t sign up for health insurance but want to show up in emergency rooms anyway, making *you* pay the bill with higher premiums and, yes, taxes.

    Good luck with your soundbite, too bad you just want to keep attacking, attacking, attacking instead of trying to help the country.

  7. AJKamper Says:

    A-freaking-men, HW. :)

    George’s rather pathetic rebuttal is a sign of how the Republicans don’t have a talking point that works on this one.

  8. Henry Whistler Says:

    And thanks for wasting two years of our lives trying to litigate a bill that you lost via democratic means.

  9. George Says:

    The notion that ObamaCare helps the country is a very foolish one. Watch what starts to take place and actually learn for a change.

    This law will get ripped apart with the coming taxation arguments.

    Instead of working on generating a healthy economy, the true waste has been pursuing the pipe dream of universal healthcare.

    http://youtu.be/bg-ofjXrXio

    Obama said it wasn’t a tax in 2009, rejected that notion…. 5 of 9 Supreme Court Justices say it IS a tax.

    Truth is, the court upheld what Obama REALLY wanted to say, which makes him a liar.

  10. Mg Says:

    Pop quiz. Who recently stated the following:

    “The argument outlining the legal distinction between state and federal individual mandates is a valid one. The Supreme Court issues the final ruling next week and that will be the end of the debate. Well, except for all the liberal whining.”

  11. Henry Whistler Says:

    George is a kind of worker ant. He believes what he has to, each day anew, much like Mitt Romney.

    George thinks all he needs to do is just keep talking. As long as he’s talking, he thinks he’s swaying minds somewhere. Repetition, repetition. Fox said it, he says it, message disseminated, keep up the good work.

    Do not hold George accountable for what he said yesterday, or five minutes ago.

  12. Henry Whistler Says:

    Today, George is in favor of freeloaders without insurance going to emergency rooms and letting responsible people flip the bill.

    Tomorrow, eh. He’ll see what Obama does, and it’ll be the opposite of that.

  13. George Says:

    When liberals are on the losing end of an argument, they pull out the personal attack and baseless insult.

  14. Henry Whistler Says:

    The problem with your statement is that we’re on the winning side of the argument. Because one of your most conservative justices, nominated by George W. Bush, decided to act like a judge instead of a political hack.

    We won on the battlefield you chose. You can have your convictions, however deluded they may be, but it’s time to back down and accept that not only did you lose in Congress, and in the Supreme Court, you lose in almost all polling on Obamacare except for the one thing, the individual mandate, that you just got told was constitutional.

    That means you’re out of ammo, but you can’t stop yourself, because you’re not really into democracy or the rule of law, or the Constitution.

    You’re just an Obama hater, and you discredit yourself by keeping this going. Just like Mitt Romney, swearing that oh by Jeeves, he just won’t tolerate the success of Romneycare at the federal level.

  15. Henry Whistler Says:

    “The notion that ObamaCare helps the country is a very foolish one. Watch what starts to take place and actually learn for a change.”

    Of course, there’s nothing insulting about that! Me, I only think we’ve already benefited millions with Obamacare, and that like in Massachusetts we will get more people on insurance rolls, and worrying about pre-existing conditions landing you in medical bankruptcy will be a thing of the past.

    George is for taking health care away from people, and preventing more people from getting health care. But oh, it should be obvious why he’s right.

    Why won’t George bother to tell us how expanding coverage is bad for people?

  16. Henry Whistler Says:

    George, are you or aren’t you in favor of freeloaders waltzing into ERs and handing you, me and the taxpayers the bill?

    Stop dodging the question, George.

  17. George Says:

    Don’t pretend to know what I’m in favor of Henry, you’re not smart enough, you’re emotionally based claptrap is b.s.

    I’m for actual reform, not government expanse that won’t do anything of the sort.

    Hold me accountable for what I’ve written, fine. I truly believed the SC would rule ObamaCare to be unconstitutional. I was using common sense, not emotion in formulating that opinion.

    And you guys haven’t addressed the lie of Obama yet.

  18. Henry Whistler Says:

    What a bunch of platitudes. Too bad George won’t answer the question, he wants to argue about penalties vs. taxes. We know what it is, it’s a fine you get for not having health care, it’s carried out through the IRS. That’s what it is, and that is constitutional.

    So you think taxes are so inherently evil. Such that even taxing freeloaders who want to hit taxpayers with an indirect fee is unspeakable. Why is getting shafted by people with no insurance preferable? Why is bankrupting people over medical bills preferable to a tax penalty applied to a select few? Why is such a penalty unthinkable? We don’t know. You don’t try to tell us.

    You’re short on specifics, George. You’re long on saying whatever you have to say today that Fox News told you to say. I don’t know what you think? I either turn on Fox, Limbaugh, or I look to what Obama will do next and expect from you the opposite.

    ACTUAL REFORM NOT GOVERNMENT EXPANSE what? What is that? Does that give people insurance? How? Does it prevent discrimination based upon previous conditions?

    Give us something to chew on, George, rather than regurgitated piffle. Time to really start helping the country instead of just running a constant anti-Obama campaign.

  19. George Says:

    Again, don’t pretend to know what I think – you always get it wrong when you try.

    Taxes are not inherently evil. That’s your first mistake. Taxes are a necessity, excessive taxes are not. What happened today is unsustainable and you can’t see it, or don’t want to. Universal government-run health care is unsustainable.

    Only three things happen when the government get involved in social issues.

    1. The wait gets longer
    2. The quality goes down
    3. It gets more expensive.

  20. George Says:

    The government can now tax us for not doing something. It’s an expansion of the federal government, not what this country was founded on.

  21. Mike G Says:

    Universal government-run health care is unsustainable.

    The ACA doesn’t represent anything remotely like what you’re suggesting. You’re describing something closer to a single-payer system which neither party proposed. You conveniently forget that the public option was the first feature on the chopping block. The ACA requires individuals to purchase insurance from private companies. If you can’t even get the basic fundamentals of the bill correct it’s little wonder why you have to rely upon anti-government tropes.

  22. mike g Says:

    Of course I’m talking to someone who identifies with the party that brought us Medicare Part D so expecting even a modicum of honesty is foolish.

  23. George Says:

    You see, you have to project nonsense in attempting insult, instead of addressing the actual objection. That’s pathetic. Medicare Part D is crap. You’re a young fool, so be it. Hopefully you’ll wise up as you age. But right now, you’ve got what you think is victory in battle, but you’re losing the war. Sucks to be you.

    The whole design of ObamaCare is to get private companies to scrap their plans and pawn the responsibility off on the government.

    You’re going to hate November.

  24. Henry Whistler Says:

    And we see now that George is reduced to spewing word salads at us.

    Defeat ain’t easy for these guys.

    Newsflash for you, George: America does not lead the world in wait times, health care quality, or price. Nor is it even close in any of those measures. All other western democracies we can be compared to employ universal health care.

    So you’re full of shit again.

    Did you know that President Washington supported a mandate?

    But I love this attempt to circumvent everything this decision meant and swear, by the gods, that now we’ve really done it, and Republicans are going to rally against Obamacare for November.

    Yet every time I’ve tried to get one of you monkeys to subscribe to repealing the popular provisions of the ACA (hint: everything except the mandate), you want to shuck and jive and dance around like a Romney, declaring that oh, no, you don’t mean THAT provision, but you’re going to give us REAL REFORM and well, who the fuck knows what that means.

    You’re full of gas, George, while I’m trying to help real Americans afford a trip to the hospital. Take your political crusade home and quit bothering people with real problems, eh?

  25. George Says:

    You don’t help anyone but yourself and the only thing you’re good at is stroking your own ego.

    It’s delusional to think that ObamaCare is a good thing. You ignore the evidence out there of the growing negative impacts that have already taken place and the big crap doesn’t hit the fan until 2014.

    Go ahead, continue being a willfully ignorant stooge, you’re not even smart enough to consider being intellectually honest.

    Watch as a large number of employers will drop their employee health plans because of government forced costs, causing employees to run to the government (as designed by ObamaCare). DOH!

    Indeed, watch as the cost goes up (it already has), the wait gets longer and the quality goes down as the government program grows (as designed). DOH!

    Side note for the future: Didn’t pay your taxes? Oh my, then you don’t get health care.

    Watch, as the IRS reaches deeper into your pocket than it already does (by design). DOH!

    Watch, as more doctors opt out of Medicare, and others retire early.

    Watch, as people are no longer able to “Keep their plan” and “Keep their doctor” like Obama said with a straight face.

    Watch, as ObamaCare raises taxes on middle-income families in direct violation of President Obama’s pledge not to do so (another of his lies).

    I guess Henry enjoys being lied to. He enjoys believing in pipe dreams. And here’s why we know Henry isn’t the sharpest knife in the drawer. He worships liars like Obama, Reid, Pelosi. They don’t give a rat’s rear end about him, but gosh, Henry will fall on a sword for them.

    Henry “Homer” Whistler, he’s an idiot. He’s fun to watch, but he’s an idiot.

    What a cartoon!

  26. mike g Says:

    The butthurt is strong with this one, Obi Wan.

  27. George Says:

    Hey, David Axelrod called, he wants his quotes back.

  28. George Says:

    What evidence do you have that government will provide for better health care than the private sector?

    Answer: You don’t have any.

  29. Henry Whistler Says:

    Man, I have to sit down later and comb through this stream of DOOM I TELL YOU, but George is in such a bubble he can’t even read what was written previously. Every western democracy and a few eastern countries have universal healthcare, primarily through the state, and the US underperforms against all of them while spending twice as much money per patient.

    Proof that government can handle healthcare better than private interests? There’s virtually no proof anywhere demonstrating otherwise.

    Not to mention that in a single payer system, the government doesn’t have to provide the care, it can jusy pay the caretakers. It’s no different than any other government contractor. Just pretend we’re paying them to kill people instead of healing them and you’ll feel the love return.

  30. Henry Whistler Says:

    Oh, wait, it was all DOOM I TELL YOU, which means George is cooked.

    One key indicator is that even most of George’s worst case scenarios don’t even compare to the horrors of our system before the ACA.

    Health care costs DOUBLED from 1996 to 2006. Just imagine what George would say if we’d had single payer during those years and our health care taxes had doubled. It would be Armageddon, but because the private healthcare industry did it, George waves it past the gates.

    Being only willing to condemn imaginary, future flaws of public care and being unwilling to condemn measurable, past misdeeds of private care does not a convincing case make, George.

    One reason we have rated very poorly on health care comparisons for years is that our old system leaves out tens of millions of people, killing 26,000 people in 2010 alone.

    Just imagine George’s outrage if government-run healthcare were to result in 26,000 extra deaths in one year. George would mount a steed and charge Washington with a lance in hand.

    While George is complaining about a deadbeat tax, our old system bankrupts millions, causing half of all bankruptcies. Imagine if Obamacare bankrupted even a hundred people. George would tell us it was time for armed revolution.

    Your problem, George, is that you know Obama’s bad and you know socialism is bad and you know all sorts of stuff, but you don’t actually know a single thing. You just keep looking until you get somebody to say what you think you know, and FOX/Limbaugh/Hannity/whoever is always ready and willing to step up and give you the soundbites that will make the voices in your head stop shouting and send you here to trumpet.

    Here’s the truth you can’t stand: Obama and the Democrats just want to help people be healthy, so they’re helping more people get health care. It’s that simple, no more. Quibble about the particulars if you want, but you aren’t acting from a desire to see better healthcare for all, you’re acting out of partisan spite, willing to disregard the sick and dying to promote Team Republican.

    And we’ll just keep telling that truth, and you’ll lose, like you’ve been losing all this time, and one day you’ll finally figure out you’ve lost, after Obama and the Democrats have been spending their time bringing health and freedom to millions.

    Enjoy the tar pit, dinosaur.

  31. Henry Whistler Says:

    AJ: I’m actually not so disappointed in Roberts rejecting the argument as a legitimate extension of the Commerce Clause, even though I disagree on the merits. The fact is that the mandate did only exist as a tax penalty, while Commerce Clause powers allow criminal prosecution, so the law as written really didn’t need to rest upon such extensive powers. Again, I consider the notion that people aren’t participating in the health care market to be rather suspect, but I have always been in favor of opt-out options because I don’t want the government’s hand to be seen as too oppressive. I do respect individual freedom and the right to refrain from participation, I just didn’t see the health care market as a typical market.

    But the mandate does exist as basically a tax on deadbeats, and it sure beats bankrupting people over medical bills, as the old system was fond of. If conservatives feel relieved that they won’t be mandated to buy broccoli, then good for them.

    Now when can I stop paying for endless wars abroad and at home?